Just wait until Russert's lies about Valerie Plame come out. Hakuna matata!

Did you see Russert on Sinday practically BEGGING Lieberman to stay with the Democrats now? Now Reid promises Lieberman his seniority on committees. Kinda funny since the Democratic Party TOSSED HIM OVERBOARD and Republicans threw out the life preserver!

Why do we need cover anyway? We just won both houses of Congress largely on the strength of wanting to get out of Iraq. What more "cover" dowe need?

"Democratic Party TOSSED HIM OVERBOARD and Republicans threw out the life preserver!"

Probably because the only candidate the R's could scrape up was an obvious loser from day one.

Kevin,

Just curious -- why do you continue to tolerate Charlie/Cheney/DougM/"Don P"/Thomas1/Chuck/Jeffery pissing all over your comments? What value do you imagine he adds? An unmodified comment section is one thing, but why do you refuse to ban this creep?

Maybe Jim Baker can explain to the American people why his law firm is defending the Saudi government in the lawsuit brought by the 9-11 widows, or why there is a 28 page gap in the 9-11 Commission Report. Anyone who thinks Baker is going to do what's right for America, doesn't understand American history. That cocksucker has gotten away with more criminal misdeeds than Genghis Khan!

Regardless, CN, why doesn't Lieberman owe something to his ACTUAL constituents? He doesn't owe a thing to people like shortstop who worked non-stop to TOSS HIM OVERBOARD!

The Liberal Avenger:

Don't forget how Bush sent Baker to personally set demolition charges in the World Trade Center. Your tin foil hat is slipping.

Well now that the evangelical leaders have endorsed drugs and gay sex with prostitutes, I guess they should be applauded. I, for one, salute them!

Why do we need cover anyway? We just won both houses of Congress largely on the strength of wanting to get out of Iraq. What more "cover" do we need?
Posted by: RWB

Amen.

Kevin, you can't pin this phenomenon on Washington alone. Take Israel, where "only" Yitzhak Rabin could have pursued peace with Arafat, because Rabin had been such a great warrior earlier in his career, or "only" Sharon could have withdrawn from Gaza because of his previously established tough guy credentials (and I realize that's putting it mildly). That's but one example. Point is, it pays to puff up a lot so that you can look as if you're making a big deal when you actually do seek reconciliation.

Every major policy foreign victory has come at the hands of republicans. Democrats just can't handle it.

[Exception: Ike. But he'd be a Republican today.]

You mean "Exception: Truman"? He's the last real Democrat with balls.

"[Exception: Ike. But he'd be a Republican today.]"

Who wants that one?

Chocolate Thunder: Who wants that one?

Not me, there's no sport in it.

RWB: Why do we need cover anyway? We just won both houses of Congress largely on the strength of wanting to get out of Iraq. What more "cover" do we need?

Because history tells us not to trust the Republican-owned media to remember the lessons of this election instead of returning to spouting GOP talking points?

Watch our backs. Every second.

Not me, there's no sport in it.

Hawk's not from around here, remember. He thinks the Boston Tea Party was a Junior League fundraising event and the French and Indian War was fought between Native Americans and grenouilles.

Watch our backs. Every second.

Now that the Dems have the House
You are going to read and hear how
its up to them to "solve" the quagmire
that is Iraq

They better have a consistent response
ie
two choices -one is bad, the other worse

Exactly, Determined.

"Who wants that one?"

LOL

Methinks the trolls need a cliché a day to keep the afreets away.

That Lieberman was "thrown overboard" is today's cliché apparently. Lieberman wasn't "thrown overboard". He was defeated in the party primary.

What that has to do about Republicans harming debate with extreme rhetoric is ... oh wait ... it's another example of Republicans harming the debate with extreme rhetoric.

Let's see, Now "Russert" that right-winged commentator can give the Democrats cover by bringing up the Baker report. It almost sounds like Russert is inclinded to help Democrats take cover. I wonder who Russert worked for before he became a talking head. Probably some right winged Republican senator.

I wish he was a more objective like Chris Matthews or George Snufflupegus. At least none of them have worked for the right wing New York Times or Washington Post.

If only there were a left wing radio network to combat all those right wingers. NPR and Air America continue to spew the right wing tripe because they are owned by the Republicans.

If only we had some balance in the media instead of the right wing having it all...

Regardless, CN, why doesn't Lieberman owe something to his ACTUAL constituents? He doesn't owe a thing to people like shortstop who worked non-stop to TOSS HIM OVERBOARD!

What you fail to understand is that Lieberman is an utterly unprincipled, narcissistic politician who, if he can be depended upon for anything, can be depended on to act in his own best interest. He may speak out of both sides of his mouth to obscure this fact, but ultimately, it is all about Joe. Accordingly, the republicants who voted him back into the senate have no basis to grumble when he subsequently hoses them mercilessly.

And yet our history books blather on about how much we all owe Nixon for this wonderfully counterintuitive move.

I have believed for a long time that all Richard Nixon had to do to achieve a rapproachment between the U.S. and China was shut up. Nothing good came from it until later when Deng Hsiao-ping became premier.

Chotiner is a pretty unusual name. Is this guy related to Murray Chotiner?

[Shitbird]'s not from around here, remember. He thinks the Boston Tea Party was a Junior League fundraising event....

He apparently also thinks Ike was a Democrat.

Fine, Jeffrey and Baldrick, if you don't like the ocean-going analogy, Lieberman was defeated in the Democratic Party and his Republican constituents voted him in. The Republicans are more than willing to give him anything he wants, including any chairmanship he wants in the Senate.

With my obsessive interest in the Nixon administration, marcel, I was wondering the same thing...

He apparently also thinks Ike was a Democrat.

Uh, right. That was the point of my snark.

"Orwell" is just phoning it in lately. I guess being among the Republican dead-enders must be sinking in.

shortstop and Gregory:

Do you two not like the ocean-going analogy either? Have you made your peace with Joe yet?

Pssssst ... dumbass ... quit promising Smoochy Weeperman committee chairmanships ... his traitorous ass is only good to us if he stays Democrat!

The GOP:

How exactly is that? If Lieberman caucuses with the Republicans (and everyone else stays the same), the Democrats never get control in the first place.

Great, this place is becoming unreadable too. I'm sure Kevin doesn't have the time, energy, or tools (judging by the fact you don't have to set up an account before posting) to stop the trolls. The next best solution is to ignore them completely (or at least not address them directly).

Has anyone heard from Bob / rmck1? Did he really keep his promise and leave?!

[Exception: Ike. But he'd be a Republican today.]

Wow, chickenshit, you are a dumb fuck. Hint: Ike was Republican.

Unless you thought a dem chose Richard Nixon as his VP? And you wonder why we can't take you seriously.

And yet our history books blather on about how much we all owe Nixon for this wonderfully counterintuitive move.

Speaking of history books blathering...

I just checked the one I had in HS.

Seems... Ferdinand Magellan was "slaughtered" by phillipine natives...

No mention that he was burning villages for his Christian God just days before he got hacked to pieces...

MeLoseBrain?:

I think that was the fake American Hawk.

ROTFLMLiberalAO:

At least you can read. Funny how you missed, then, how Bush has bent over backwards stressing this is NOT a war on Islam, but rather the fanatics who are using the religion of peace as cover for terrorism.

November 7, 2006 Explained:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." -- President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1952

Yeah - I recall that Thomas1 fellow liked to publicly toss Lieberman's salad too.

It's like how I missed how I can ignore the fact that Lieberman has voted pretty consistenly for liberal causes for his entire career, and that he only leans Republican on a few high-profile issues.

Just like the Reps. renamed the inheritance tax the death tax. Let's rename the Baker Commisssion the "Cut and Run Commission", as in "Cut Our Loses and Run." Get all Demsocrats in to say this instead of Baker Commission.

RWB:
Why do we need cover anyway? We just won both houses of Congress

Because in the future it will be our fault. Regardless of the fact that the neocons screwed it up, it will be our fault because the troops had to fight with one hand tied behind their back to appease the bleeaing-heart liberals. (That they also had to fight with inadequate armor, foul water provided by Halliburton, etc., will be forgotten.) Listen to the story of Vietnam as these people tell it. If we'd been allowed to "go in there and win it," "bomb them back to the stone age," pick your cliche, we'd have won that one. It will be exactly the same. We need all the cover we can get. Not fair, but there it is.

We need cover so we don't get Vietnammed.
The most important thing to Republicans is that they get out of Iraq with a reputation for being strong on defense. They absolutely have to appear to be winners. They absolutely cannot appear to be losers. Facts are irrelevant. They HAVE to appear either to a victory or they HAVE to blame someone other than themselves for the defeat.
If the Democrats manage to impliment a policy of troop reductions over time, Iraq will descend into total barbarism, and the Republicans will all start chanting "We could have won, the Democrats made us lose." They will chant this over and over and over until their base and the independents that voted Demo in this election believe it. Facts will not matter. Reason will not matter. Americans hate losers and the Republicans will be utterly determined to make the Dems take the fall to avoid that loser label.
We need cover, lots of it.

At least Nixon DID go to China, however cynically he and Republicans made it politically impossible for anyone but a Republican to do so.

But who expects a "Nixon goes to China" moment, ever, out of our current President?

No, instead, Bush has done everything he can to make step toward moderation impossible, not just for Democrats, but also for Republicans.

That's why we have the pathetic spectacle of John McCain, who can't manage to find the slightest sunshine between himself and Bush on Iraq. And the like holds for anyone who considers himself Presidential timber on the Republican side.

'cut & run', morphs into a euphemism for 'divide & profit' now that James Baker is at the wheel. with oil contracts already secure in the hands of his buddies, counter insurgency tactics widening the shia-shiite divide and Kurds in full-blown freedom frenzy. why, (sheepish grin) seems like the 'natural step', huh? cuz when Condi says we aint leaving till "Iraq is successful" she's referring to one of her favorite corporate hot buttons. after all, Exxon did put her name on a supertanker...

Speaking of Scooter Libby, did you see his lawyer's statement today that dismissed the idea of a grand White House plot to leak Plame's name to the press and revealed that Libby plans to testify at his perjury trial that he had no reason to lie.

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent years investigating who leaked Valerie Plame Wilson's identity to syndicated columnist Robert Novak in 2003. While nobody was charged with the leak, Libby is accused of lying to investigators about his conversations with reporters.

Fitzgerald wants to keep most of that backstory out of Libby's trial in January. But in court documents filed Tuesday, defense attorneys said they have a right to argue that Libby doesn't believe he did anything wrong.

Novak's story ran as Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, criticized the Bush administration's prewar intelligence on Iraq. Former State Department official Richard Armitage has acknowledged being the source for Novak's column, a fact that neither defense attorneys nor prosecutors discussed in legal filings until Tuesday.

"It is doubtful that anyone committed an 'underlying crime' here," Libby's lawyers wrote. "The government's investigation began as an effort to discover which government officials had 'leaked' Ms. Wilson's affiliation with the CIA to Mr. Novak. After years of overheated media speculation that Ms. Wilson's identity had been publicly revealed as part of a White House plot to wreak revenge on her husband, Mr. Armitage (who was no White House ally) finally confirmed in August 2006 that he was Mr. Novak's primary source."

Libby's attorneys said Fitzgerald has perpetuated the notion that Libby was the source and said the former aide should be allowed to tell jurors that he was not -- and thus had no reason to lie to the FBI or grand jury.

"Members of the jury will have heard for years that Mr. Libby leaked classified information about Valerie Wilson's affiliation with the CIA, due to inaccurate reports in the press," defense attorneys wrote. "Indeed, the government has contributed to the likely misimpressions that potential jurors will have about this case."

Fitzgerald has not specifically commented on that allegation. In court papers, he has argued that the upcoming trial should not be a forum to debate the leak itself or question why Libby was charged and others weren't.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/14/D8LCVA7O1.html

sorry, Condi was on a CHEVRON supertanker, yeah!

a missed opportunity for a 'Pimp My Supertanker' episode?

Baker's job is to save Junior's ass. Hamilton is turncoat so don't rely on him to do good for Dems.

Baker's job is also to ensure that the GOP has decent chance of winning the WH in 2008. Baker will try all the tricks he knows of to stop the Dems from enforcing a hard deadline thus provoking a confrontation with the WH.

Fitzmas didn't turn out so great for your side either, did it?

oh Judy, Judy... NOW you bite the hand... b*tch, you're part of the reason we're all fuming here on this post

Charlie, posting as "Jeffery", spams the thread with irrelevant off-topic articles cut-and-pasted in their entirety, then comments on his own irrelevant cut-and-paste job in an effort to attract attention to himself. One of many dead giveaways that this is the same tiresome old neurotic asshole Charlie.

It would be appropriate to rename this site from "Political Animal" to "Charlie's Neurosis".

I should add that I always believe everything lawyers say in favor of their clients. That's why I believed Saddam was innocent - his lawyers said such nice things about him.

But who expects a "Nixon goes to China" moment, ever, out of our current President?

No one does, you're right.

As much as millions of people around the world would like Bush to grab that bullhorn he used on 9/11, go to the square where we pulled down Saddam's statue and pretended the Iraqis did it, and tell the Iraqis that the people who did this to them will be brought to justice -- he just doesn't have the balls.

These threads are so much nicer without Bob / rmck1, don't you think?

McCain 'The Pain' '08!!! ha! that's rich, Baker clearing the path to the WH of all that vexatious 'shrub' for his b*tch of so many years... oh well, let bygones be...

O.K., fake Jeffery, which one was this:

On January 1, 1643, by unanimous vote, Dedham MA authorized the first U.S. taxpayer-funded public school: "the seed of American education." Its first teacher, REVEREND Ralph Wheelock, was paid 20 pounds annually to instruct the youth of the community. Descendants of these students would become presidents of Dartmouth College, Yale University and Harvard University. Perhaps you are unaware of the history of said Ivy League schools too?

Sorry - wrong thread.

I don't even know which thread I'm supposed to be in. What a maroon I am!

secular animist: "... in an effort to attract attention to himself."

fortunately for him, you're willing to give him plenty of it

Maybe I posted those SecularAnimist posts? Maybe I am Kevin Drum?

No, I'm not Kevin Drum.

What other explanation could there be for not banning me?

Now, every time some GOP spokesman tells Tim Russert that the Democrats want to cut-and-run, Russert can respond that even the Baker Commission wants withdrawal (turn on your televisions; this is already happening). And why does the Baker Commission have such "credibility"? Because the press has been telling us that it does. What a beautiful circle.

If it takes a Republican circle jerk to get us out of Iraq, so be it.

Hell, let's make it a pay-per-view event hosted by Mark Foley with a special appearance by Ted Haggard. The Republicans will surely do it if we let them keep the profits, and at least we'll finally have a defined end to the war.

Kevin doesn't ban me for the same reason he lets comments fill up with Chinese spam - he doesn't pay attention to the cesspool I create in here.

Because in the future it will be our fault. Regardless of the fact that the neocons screwed it up, it will be our fault because the troops had to fight with one hand tied behind their back to appease the bleeaing-heart liberals.
Posted by: mister pedantic on November 14, 2006 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

That's going to be a really difficult case for them to make, seeing as how Liberals were the ones calling for more troops, and the conservatives were fighting for the "lean and mean" approach - and the conservatives got exactly what they wanted, because they were in complete control.

As much as millions of people around the world would like Bush to grab that bullhorn he used on 9/11, go to the square where we pulled down Saddam's statue and pretended the Iraqis did it, and tell the Iraqis that the people who did this to them will be brought to justice -- he just doesn't have the balls.

and to think that stem cell research might have allowed him to grow the pair that he needs. oh well.

That's going to be a really difficult case for them to make...

Logic? We don't need no stinkin' logic!

Jeffrey:

Mock me if you will, you ignorant right-wing troll. More about the slimy James Baker here and here and here. This guy has left a trail of shit behind himself that could fertilize the Sinai!

wait just one minute! how dare Baker go fiddlin' around all these very special interests without Henry Touch-of-Death Kissinger??? I'm appalled

Bush is Jew.

Here are 30 or so pictures of GW Bush, and cohorts, having fun with rabbis, etc,....

Bush is a Jew.

Bush is related to RICHARD NIXON:

Richard Lippincott m. Abigail ----
.Restore Lippincott m. Hannah Shattuck
 .Rebecca Lippincott m. Josiah Gaskill
  .Jonathan Gaskill m. Jane Shinn
   .Hope Gaskill m. James Cattell
    .Jane Cattell m. Benjamin Malmsbury
     .Hope Malmsbury m. James Hemingway
      .Jane M Hemingway m. Oliver Burdg
       .Almira Park Burdg m. Franklin Milhous
        .Hannah Milhous m. Francis Anthony Nixon
         .RICHARD MILHOUS NIXON (1913-1994), US President

Richard Lippincott m. Abigail ----
.Freedom Lippincott m. Mary Custance
 .Freedom Lippincott m. Elizabeth Wills
  .Hope Lippincott m. Henry Jones
   .Sarah Jones m. Joshua Ballinger
    .Sarah Ballinger m. Allen Haines
     .Jonathan Haines m. Mary Jane Sprague
      .Sarah Haines m. Jacob Marion Flickinger
       .Lula Dell Flickinger m. James Edgar Robinson
        .Pauline Robinson m. Marvin Pierce
         .Barbara Pierce m. GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, US President
          .GEORGE W. BUSH, US President

Therefore we might conclude NIXON was a Jew too.

Well, this is definitely not a proof, but certainly should be considered a probability.

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Ignoring the boring-ass anti-Semitism, if Nixon were really related to Bush, that would 'splain a great deal.

I'm getting really tired of these trolls shitting all over these threads. The only good thing about them is that they remind me of why I'm a Democrat. I'm glad they're Republicans. Think how embarrassing it would be to have stupid assholes like that on our side. I visit the conservative blogs once in a while just to see what the opposition has to say, but I never post anything there unless it's on the rare occasion that I happen to agree with the blogger. I have never once seen any of these trolls agree with anything Kevin says. It's like they wait to form an opinion until they see what Kevin has to say so that they can take the exact opposite view. Hey trolls, do me a big favor and stay with the Republicans. We won't have your kind in our party.

Is that supposed to be a parody of anti-Semitism or real anti-Semitism? I can't tell if that is Borat or Mel Gibson.

Put simply, stop the bickering.

A question for the right: How do we win?

A question to the left: How do we retreat to fight another day?

Stop bickering and start discussing. As long as you demonize your opponents, there will never be legitimate political discourse. These threads are the perfect examples of what is wrong in American politics, and to me, it shows no sign of abating.

As a combat veteran with two tours under my belt in Iraq, I am quite disgusted by ALL MEMBERS OF THE NON-MILITARY CITIZENRY. Most do not care or do not really think about what is going on in Iraq on a daily basis. Most refuse to hold themselves to account for THEIR VOTES, and instead blame the other side.

And it's sad that but a select few, but .5% of our population, most of them from the lower class (and a number of immigrants without citizenship or voting rights) volunteer to fight for a citizenry that is as politically immature as their elected representatives.

What is wrong with our elected leadership? Perhaps we should look at the people who elected them.

Get out of Iraq now, while you can, or reinstate the draft and deluge the place with American farm boys/gals. Those are th options. Neither are palatable.

Thanks, Mr. President.

And if Ike were here today, he'd be a Democrat. Think about his farewell address.

Put simply, stop the bickering.

A question for the right: How do we win?

A question to the left: How do we retreat to fight another day?

Stop bickering and start discussing. As long as you demonize your opponents, there will never be legitimate political discourse. These threads are the perfect examples of what is wrong in American politics, and to me, it shows no sign of abating.

As a combat veteran with two tours under my belt in Iraq, I am quite disgusted by ALL MEMBERS OF THE NON-MILITARY CITIZENRY. Most do not care or do not really think about what is going on in Iraq on a daily basis. Most refuse to hold themselves to account for THEIR VOTES, and instead blame the other side.

And it's sad that but a select few, but .5% of our population, most of them from the lower class (and a number of immigrants without citizenship or voting rights) volunteer to fight for a citizenry that is as politically immature as their elected representatives.

What is wrong with our elected leadership? Perhaps we should look at the people who elected them.

Get out of Iraq now, while you can, or reinstate the draft and deluge the place with American farm boys/gals. Those are th options. Neither are palatable.

Thanks, Mr. President.

And if Ike were here today, he'd be a Democrat. Think about his farewell address.

Out of over 1M soldiers rotated in and out of Iraq...29 soldiers were interviewed and gave an oral history of life on the ground....what a reality check. It's a gruesome read....if you gave to take a look at the book review...... What really gets to me is that out of 1M, it took only 29 to speak...

The Stories They Tell: Iraq War Vets Bear Witness

here

trublu:

I've seen plenty of trolls agree with Kevin (of course, those threads are far and few between -- most of you Democrats end up bashing him for whatever reasonable point he is making -- for the record, I don't wait for Kevin's opinion just to take the opposite viewpoint).

Here's a new thread where I agree completely with K-Drum: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=10239

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